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	<title>Comments on: Are you going to the fair?</title>
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	<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/</link>
	<description>Thinking outside the tesseract -- please leave "common knowledge" at the entrance.</description>
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		<title>By: Woof. &#171; Unconventional Wisdom</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Woof. &#171; Unconventional Wisdom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 03:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>[...] day: full on interview with the company that I wrote about previously, that one that held the job fair.  I felt that the interview went well; there was the young woman [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] day: full on interview with the company that I wrote about previously, that one that held the job fair.  I felt that the interview went well; there was the young woman [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bien élevé &#171; Unconventional Wisdom</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Bien élevé &#171; Unconventional Wisdom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 04:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>[...] to do with what&#8217;s on my mind today? Well, if you&#8217;ve read one of my responses in the comments, a couple of posts back, where I described my experience with going to a job fair, you&#8217;ll [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to do with what&#8217;s on my mind today? Well, if you&#8217;ve read one of my responses in the comments, a couple of posts back, where I described my experience with going to a job fair, you&#8217;ll [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 04:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Kim:

My experience is that large IT projects with any significant development component (as opposed to just installing shrink-wrapped software) suffer from having management imposed timelines that are unrealistic, based solely on when they want it completed or that they told the board of directors or shareholders it would be completed  (i.e. backward scheduling) and not when it can realistically be completed (i.e. forward scheduling, with lots of slack for the unanticipated problems that will inevitably turn up in development).

Sigh... I don&#039;t know which is more frustrating: the inability of IT to adequately communicate this to management at the outset of the project, or management&#039;s inability to recall the previous missed (imposed) deadlines and the reasons for missing them (which should have been identified in the inevitable &quot;post-mortem&quot; finger-pointing analysis).

Glad to hear that the company you work for is more enlightened.

Ted:

Thanks for the good wishes regarding this opportunity; I&#039;ll let you know how it goes.

The article you linked to was interesting; it seems particularly relevant to a recent experience -- I was in fact contacted this week by a recruiter who&#039;d found my résumé on Monster.ca and thought I&#039;d be a good candidate for the position she was recruiting for (I believe Ted&#039;s already heard off-line from K about my adventures with this one).

When she started describing the company and the position (without naming the company) I stopped her and said &quot;Is this with *******? I already interviewed for that position about a month ago and didn&#039;t get the job.&quot;  I had been referred to the company by another recruiter, and we had both felt that I was an ideal candidate for the position; evidently the second recruiter had reached the same conclusion independently.

Now, I had gone through a total of three interviews with the company: a phone interview (lasting close to an hour) with a woman from their HR dept, then a face-to-face interview with the manager of HR (lasting over an hour) and a second group interview (using the CIDS interviewing method I spoke of in an earlier post) with the manager of HR plus the company&#039;s GM and a couple of senior managers from Ops and Sales &amp; Marketing (lasting two hours).

I had felt the interview went well, and that I had presented myself as a good fit with both the company and the job.  The HR manager even asked afterwards about my availability (they claimed to be anxious to get someone into this newly created position to sort out some internal issues ASAP; she had also enquired about my availability at the previous interview) and asked if I had any other potential offers on the go that might affect my availability.  Sounded like they were heading towards making an offer, right?

Nope.  Evidently they are still trying to fill the position, and the second recruiter told me from what she understood that very few of the many candidates that had been proposed had made it as far as I did.  So perhaps they are suffering from problem No. 2 (Unrealistic Salary Ranges (as compared to talent sought) ) listed in Part 3 of the article you linked to.  Maybe they need to add &quot;Walks on water&quot; to the job qualifications...

In any event, they seem to have some kind of dysfunctional hiring problem which may be reflective of other problems within the organization; perhaps it was for the best that I didn&#039;t get the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim:</p>
<p>My experience is that large IT projects with any significant development component (as opposed to just installing shrink-wrapped software) suffer from having management imposed timelines that are unrealistic, based solely on when they want it completed or that they told the board of directors or shareholders it would be completed  (i.e. backward scheduling) and not when it can realistically be completed (i.e. forward scheduling, with lots of slack for the unanticipated problems that will inevitably turn up in development).</p>
<p>Sigh&#8230; I don&#8217;t know which is more frustrating: the inability of IT to adequately communicate this to management at the outset of the project, or management&#8217;s inability to recall the previous missed (imposed) deadlines and the reasons for missing them (which should have been identified in the inevitable &#8220;post-mortem&#8221; finger-pointing analysis).</p>
<p>Glad to hear that the company you work for is more enlightened.</p>
<p>Ted:</p>
<p>Thanks for the good wishes regarding this opportunity; I&#8217;ll let you know how it goes.</p>
<p>The article you linked to was interesting; it seems particularly relevant to a recent experience &#8212; I was in fact contacted this week by a recruiter who&#8217;d found my résumé on Monster.ca and thought I&#8217;d be a good candidate for the position she was recruiting for (I believe Ted&#8217;s already heard off-line from K about my adventures with this one).</p>
<p>When she started describing the company and the position (without naming the company) I stopped her and said &#8220;Is this with *******? I already interviewed for that position about a month ago and didn&#8217;t get the job.&#8221;  I had been referred to the company by another recruiter, and we had both felt that I was an ideal candidate for the position; evidently the second recruiter had reached the same conclusion independently.</p>
<p>Now, I had gone through a total of three interviews with the company: a phone interview (lasting close to an hour) with a woman from their HR dept, then a face-to-face interview with the manager of HR (lasting over an hour) and a second group interview (using the CIDS interviewing method I spoke of in an earlier post) with the manager of HR plus the company&#8217;s GM and a couple of senior managers from Ops and Sales &amp; Marketing (lasting two hours).</p>
<p>I had felt the interview went well, and that I had presented myself as a good fit with both the company and the job.  The HR manager even asked afterwards about my availability (they claimed to be anxious to get someone into this newly created position to sort out some internal issues ASAP; she had also enquired about my availability at the previous interview) and asked if I had any other potential offers on the go that might affect my availability.  Sounded like they were heading towards making an offer, right?</p>
<p>Nope.  Evidently they are still trying to fill the position, and the second recruiter told me from what she understood that very few of the many candidates that had been proposed had made it as far as I did.  So perhaps they are suffering from problem No. 2 (Unrealistic Salary Ranges (as compared to talent sought) ) listed in Part 3 of the article you linked to.  Maybe they need to add &#8220;Walks on water&#8221; to the job qualifications&#8230;</p>
<p>In any event, they seem to have some kind of dysfunctional hiring problem which may be reflective of other problems within the organization; perhaps it was for the best that I didn&#8217;t get the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 21:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a positive experience, Rob. I hope it results in a hire for you.

There is a recruiters&#039; joke that HR stands for Hiring Resistance.

There was an interesting 3-part article by Frank Risalvato about a recruitment campaign that went very bad, and he tells why. You might find it interesting. Part 3 is here; it has links back to Parts 1 and 2.

http://tinyurl.com/2t4ttv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a positive experience, Rob. I hope it results in a hire for you.</p>
<p>There is a recruiters&#8217; joke that HR stands for Hiring Resistance.</p>
<p>There was an interesting 3-part article by Frank Risalvato about a recruitment campaign that went very bad, and he tells why. You might find it interesting. Part 3 is here; it has links back to Parts 1 and 2.</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/2t4ttv" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2t4ttv</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 15:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>That was supposed to be &quot;I also find it difficult...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was supposed to be &#8220;I also find it difficult&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 15:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Well, it was long, but it was very thorough. I also difficult to tell a story in a concise form, and your report included lots of relevant detail. I also really like my company for the same reasons- they let their personal philosophy guide business decisions, which results in a slow-growing but stable environment. Also, unlike many software companies, they don&#039;t blame the developer for a late product - they try and understand the factors that make it late and address those factors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it was long, but it was very thorough. I also difficult to tell a story in a concise form, and your report included lots of relevant detail. I also really like my company for the same reasons- they let their personal philosophy guide business decisions, which results in a slow-growing but stable environment. Also, unlike many software companies, they don&#8217;t blame the developer for a late product &#8211; they try and understand the factors that make it late and address those factors.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 00:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kim -- that&#039;s a polite way of saying that I use too many words ;)

Unfortunately, it&#039;s the only way I know how to say things; comes from that attention to detail thingy and my perfectionist engineer inner-self.  OK, so maybe it&#039;s my outer-self...

I was definitely impressed by the company -- particularly their values, one of which was something to the effect of &quot;make a positive contribution to society&quot;.  I&#039;m all for making a positive contribution to the bottom line too, but there are too many companies and individuals for whom that&#039;s where it ends.

Good citizenship, personal or corporate, seems to be, in many places, on the decline (replaced by rampant self-interest) so it&#039;s refreshing to find an organization that seems prepared to walk the talk -- my impression was that it wasn&#039;t just &quot;spin&quot;, that they really are committed to their stated values.

I&#039;m hoping that something positive does result from this -- I believe I would be very happy working for this company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Kim &#8212; that&#8217;s a polite way of saying that I use too many words <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Unfortunately, it&#8217;s the only way I know how to say things; comes from that attention to detail thingy and my perfectionist engineer inner-self.  OK, so maybe it&#8217;s my outer-self&#8230;</p>
<p>I was definitely impressed by the company &#8212; particularly their values, one of which was something to the effect of &#8220;make a positive contribution to society&#8221;.  I&#8217;m all for making a positive contribution to the bottom line too, but there are too many companies and individuals for whom that&#8217;s where it ends.</p>
<p>Good citizenship, personal or corporate, seems to be, in many places, on the decline (replaced by rampant self-interest) so it&#8217;s refreshing to find an organization that seems prepared to walk the talk &#8212; my impression was that it wasn&#8217;t just &#8220;spin&#8221;, that they really are committed to their stated values.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping that something positive does result from this &#8212; I believe I would be very happy working for this company.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 00:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://unconventionalwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/are-you-going-to-the-fair/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Wow, that was quite a report. And I have to agree that your observations seem to imply that the company is a sound one. I hope you get something good!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that was quite a report. And I have to agree that your observations seem to imply that the company is a sound one. I hope you get something good!</p>
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